LTA funding

paulisi · Tennis legend

LTA funding

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Just to add some of the 'ageist' stats to the perennial LTA funding debate:

ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/tennis-players-age-youngest-oldest-win-grand-slam-top-10-teenagers-over-30-federer-serena

and, sorry, paulisi, don't know the details of how it works here - would be interested too.....

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Not about LTA funding as such but just a story of one young US player's financial journey (Noah Rubin):

www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-08-28/costs-of-noah-rubin-becoming-the-world-s-631st-best-tennis-player

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Whoo, that's more about the dads aspirations than about the funding.

Very early days in Noah's career and it will be interesting to see whether his dad's phenomenal gamble pays off, to be frank Noah strikes me as a kid who's doing his best ie getting stuck into every training opportunity he is offered.

Ironically dad could have done better in terms of the genes he handed over, not investing enough time around female basketball and volleyball teams in his youth.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Oakland2002 wrote:
Whoo, that's more about the dads aspirations than about the funding.

Very early days in Noah's career and it will be interesting to see whether his dad's phenomenal gamble pays off, to be frank Noah strikes me as a kid who's doing his best ie getting stuck into every training opportunity he is offered.

Ironically dad could have done better in terms of the genes he handed over, not investing enough time around female basketball and volleyball teams in his youth.

smile smile smile

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The Junior thread for the Nike G5 Liverpool event has raised the question, yet again and quite rightly, of funding.

I just wanted to add that, also yet again, I've heard on the grapevine how secretive and arbitrary is the funding system.

Sports Aid, as per the LTA website, is one of the main sources of funding for players. Yet this applies only for players up to age 16 (although SportsAid itself, will go up to 18 but the LTA doesn't want that for tennis). This comes on top of the LTA funding, not separate - in fact, it is part and parcel - i.e. you have to be LTA sponsored to get the SportsAid so, yet again, if you're on the inside, it's double rosy, if not, tough. I was told that I would be 'astounded' by who gets what.

I believe (purely secondhand info, I add, but usually correct source) that Jay Clarke has had to withdraw from Eddie Herr and the Orange Bowl as he can't afford it.

And yet Jeremy Bates is constantly with Katie Swan, wherever she is in the world.

AND, mentioned yet again from abroad and witnessed by me first hand in the UK, Bates continues to refuse to help, talk to or have anything to do with the other GB players who are not on his special funded list. Even the highly ranked and talented ones. Not even a passing 'well done'.

I will stop as I'm feeling a bit 'heated'.......

indiana · Tennis legend

So apparently this poor deprived tennis authority of this poor deprived nation can't support its clear top ranked and JWR 28 player into top junior events ( while accepting health warnings re that ranking ).

Clearly if there was any sort of real will some support could and should be given ( even if I wasn't overimpressed with Jay trumpeting recently what he was achieving without support ).

PS : I am assuming that any LTA support / funding would be accepted.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 09:24:47 PM

Oakland2002 · All-time great

CD I agree if the reports of indifference to other young players is true he's in the wrong job. So different from Judy Murrays approach.

Also a shame that Jay can't have a crack at what are two highly prestigious junior tournaments but one has to question their value in terms of experience versus pounds spent, indeed Jays family obviously feel that and hopefully Jay will find a cheaper senior alternative that gives perhaps a different experience but more value.

Although nothing is guaranteed Katie stands a better than even chance on repaying any investment in her development, an investment she has earnt through her performances. Surely to justify substantial investment you are looking at top 10 ranked juniors who are so good that their final year (or two years for the girls) is spent mainly playing seniors and winning 10-15 Ks playing only junior slams and their prep tournaments. We are also beginning to see a return on Kyle.

All that said both I think are relative tap ins, talent allied with a good attitude, I just hope all the 13/14 yr olds doing so well at Liverpool are getting the support they need as they earn it through their performances

TheTraveller2 · Lower Club Player

indiana wrote:
So apparently this poor deprived tennis authority of this poor deprived nation can't support its clear top ranked and JWR 28 player into top junior events ( while accepting health warnings re that ranking ).
Clearly if there was any sort of real will some support could and should be given ( even if I wasn't overimpressed with Jay trumpeting recently what he was achieving without support ).
PS : I am assuming that any LTA support / funding would be accepted.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 09:24:47 PM

My understanding is that the Clark family have a patchy relationship with the LTA, so who knows. That said, with Jay at JWR 28 one would hope both sides would want to take advantage of the situation and let bygones be bygones.

Spectator · All-time great

There is no excuse for not being supportive of one's country's players, whether or not one is paid to be so. And it certainly does the supported players no good to have such a rigidly imposed divide.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I agree with TheTraveller's point - the Clark family have obviously had a rocky relationship with the LTA and may well want to go it alone and wouldn't touch funding if offered - who knows.....

However, there are many ways of helping, and the LTA's mandate is to do the best for British tennis so you would hope that they could find the skills to 'manage' it somehow.

And I obviously am a major fan of Katie's and don't begrudge her, personally, one sou.

But I don't really agree with Oakland's point that Katie will 'repay' the investment, thereby justifying it, and that one needs top 10 youngsters to do this. And would point out that her level and results that has 'earned' her the funding is very largley based on her time in the US.

Eyeballing it, the Mexican trip must be costing the LTA around £ 10k. That, in my mind, is a daft amount of money for one child, one tournament. And I don't see her on the entry list for the G1 event the next week in Mexico.

Obviously Katie has to play some top level junior competitions. But not all. And not really expensive one-offs. There are hardly any European players over there - France hasn't sent a single girl.

If (IF) Bates were there for the three players, and Ema Lazic had gone too, say, hence dividing his salary amongst four players, and halving the hotel bills (in terms of bang for the buck), THEN you would have a financially viable trip.

This is the way most federations work. Effective finances AND effective results come from, fundamentally, a group approach with a little individual tweaking on top. Not hot-housing one player.

Otto · Social player

In my experience funding for individual players has never had hard and fast rules. I feel the LTA found matrix funding too constraining. I could give you all the horror stories of how the offer or withdrawing of funding has been used to manipulate players and coaches over the years, but there is a point to make that is far more important.

You would have thought that as a coach of dozens of internationally ranked junior and senior players over the years, that I would be campaigning for as much funding as possible. However I have always found LTA funding to be disruptive, divisive and the source of unwanted insecurity and stress.

The reason players need funding is to reduce the substantial cost of attempting to become a professional player. These costs are basically competing and training. You don't need funding in order to greatly reduce these costs. The down side of course is that it switches control from the federation to the individual.

-- Edited by Otto on Thursday 19th of November 2015 10:10:50 AM

paulisi · Tennis legend

Is Jeremy coaching Katie S?

I spoke to Ema's dad. He said may play a couple of grade 2's and then have a go at the GS next year if her ranking justifies.

It very much depends on what you call funding. Full time funding is coaching and travelling paid for and a travelling coach.

The rest of the funding will vary. Some will have some coaching paid for, some will have some travel paid for i.e trips to junior Grand Slams, Grade A etc.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The link on the Izzy Wallace thread posted by greatunclebulgaria is excellent, and exactly what many people have in mind when they criticise the LTA.

Now, the Wallace family may be trying to have their cake and eat it too, I wouldn't know, but time and time again one hears that the major complaint against the LTA is not specific funding itself (as Otto says, it's a two-edged sword, the way it's used) but the lack of communication and the obsession with instant results.

This comes across very well in the link.

Young players need to feel supported, and part of the bigger tennis family, and encouraged, not under pressure to perform like a seal at the circus, just so they will be thrown a fishy cheque.

The European federations, by and large, are far better at this. There's often very little direct funding but a great support structure.

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, CD, just the sort of points that I have just been making in the Izzy thread. As you say 'time and again' one hears similar complaints about communication and non funding assistance ( as you suggest particularly once they have fallen short of some imposed target ).

It appears to me that the LTA really need to take more note of repeated messages and by what I read some individuals particularly so.

You will clearly know a lot about the much more inclusive French ways.

-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 19th of November 2015 09:41:59 PM