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Post Info TOPIC: Junior rankings


ATP qualifying

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RE: Junior rankings


I think CD has hit the nail on the head when he says how fragmented the sport is. ,

Currently most regular tennis clubs welcome juniors with open arms.  There are still a few who don't but the membership is changing.  Most young single adults who join a sports club have no issue with kids as long as they are well behaved and obey club rules.  Most adults with children would not join a club where their children were not welcome, a sports club being a place where families can spend precious time together.  Those which maintain a 'kids 2nd if at all' attitude are starting to suffer membership issues as their current membership ages and new blood seeks a more inclusive atmosphere.  Most run beginner level squads and junior practice sessions, and welcome the older juniors into general social tennis and adult teams.  They usually also welcome non-member juniors into their beginner squads or make junior membership available very cheaply. However, any junior who shows promise or starts to do well competitively is normally encouraged to move to an HPC.  This makes it hard for the clubs to run junior teams and obviously prevents the juniors becoming further integrated into the adult club tennis.

The HPCs as I mentioned earlier in this thread, are only about performance tennis.  They are a place where juniors turn up, do their squads, fitness or whatever and then go home.  They are not somewhere where a young player can spend best part of a weekend socialising, practicing with all and sundry.  Most have a completely soulless atmosphere.  Some do enter teams in the premier (national) junior club league but they struggle to field teams.  Their players are out competing as individuals most weekends and, as there is no club atmosphere, feel insufficient loyalty to the HPC to re-arrange their schedules.  When they stop making progress at the HPC, very few juniors return to the club system.  As HPCs are about performance tennis and judge their juniors on results and measurable progress, those who aren't making the grade (most at the end of the day) leave in a state of disillusionment and negativity about the sport and generally turn to other sports or activities.

There are too many HPCs as well (soon to be changed) meaning performance players are very thinly spread.

Very few schools have tennis as a meaningful sport (Queenswood, Reeds, Talbot Heath and one or two others aside).  Not enough children can play it at the same time, and usually only 4 kids can make the team.  A lot of primary schools have adopted the LTA system for introducing kids to racquet sports but it doesn't really develop from there.

I can't help feeling that the solution lies in keeping the kids in club tennis for longer.  Matches/hitting against the top mens and womens team members is probably just as challenging as playing other strong juniors, at least up until 14 yo.  And those progressing more slowly will stay in the sport.  Maybe this is what the LTA are hoping will be the result of their planned drastic reduction in HPC numbers.



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Challenger level

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I was struck, during the Oz Open, by how much easier it is for anybody to navigate the Tennis Australia website compared to the LTA site.

www.tennis.com.au/

The LTA site seems to be focused mainly on listing the Byzantine levels of complexity of the various and competing and contradictary LTA schemes - which it doesn't do well. I personally have absolutely no idea what relation there is between county associations, clubs, HPCs; nor much sense of how a player is supposed to come through that and get to the level in which I take an interest - ITF juniors through ITF to WTA/ATP.

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Strong Club Player

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The good old tennis systems and juniors. I have never really taken junior rankings/ratings seriously. Doesn't mean much. Just like running a marathon, the person that sets off fast at the beginning and disappears into the horizon with the others languishing behind is not necessarily the one to finish the race first if at all.  Nobody seems to be talking about game style and fundamental development here, particularly at the junior stage. Juniors should be all about fundamental development rather than winning, ranking, etc. I am aware there are pressures of funding/sponsorship, which is heavily reliant on short-term results, but there-in lies the problem. Goals should be development goals rather than who is the highest this and that as a junior. It is meaningless. Results do not last.

As for the French, they IMHO have the right approach. Most of their juniors do not bother with junior events, reasons why you will not find many of them when you search through the rankings of top this and that.  I am a newbie and have been interested and have been following juniors transitioning to senior game. Good example showcasing the French system is Oceane Dodin (hope I got the name right CD). Came across her and her team last year in one of my travels with my son when she was ranked lowly 700+ and within 6 months she was top 200 and playing the main draw of Australian open, reaching the second round I think. That did not surprise me at all. When I saw her play, one could tell that she had something well suited to the senior game (not for the juniors). Very aggressive and looking to win points rather than being given points. Obviously, that came with a lot of errors, but it is always a matter of time before the errors reduce due to fine-tuning and keep trying with development goals rather the winning goals. It was not about junior rankings or being top junior this and that. She barely played juniors. Yet at the time I saw them, we had a couple of our promising players already well into top 400 and have not moved on really in comparison.

 

Also, top 50 junior doesn't guarantee anything. Some get there through a combination of factors and not necessarily with the game that will stand the test of time.



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All-time great

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I agree with a lot of your points, but I don't think there is much mystery most of it is down to maturity and the unpredictability of physical development which are a bit out of the control of the LTA

There is a big difference between the significance of girls and boys tennis. The girls rankings is seriously confounded by the fact that a significant proportion of 16-18 year old girls are physically mature ie young women. Good players are really looking to transition to seniors at the age of 14-15-16. By their late teens early twenties they are elite players. Elite junior performance in the girls game as a 17/18 year old are going to be a bad marker of progression as are rankings at this age, the really good players have rightly already transitioned. 14-15 year olds with top 50 junior ranks are however a different kettle of fish.

Boys tennis is just that, boys tennis until you are 18, again 6 ft 5 inch guys and taller transition much faster relative to talent as the court us bigger for them. Elite performances in junior GS and rankings are a much better predictor particularly if at 17 again this confounded a bit by that final growth spurt into adulthood. A 5 10 16 yr old is a good size but if you are done at 16 are going to struggle at 24 unless they have some seriously good ground strokes and phenomenal athleticism.

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Tennis legend

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Great post, TennisLover.

I certainly agree with just about all you say re rankings and concentrating on development. One reason why Laura Robson has always excited is she had the game so early - OK with her, and clearly not helped by her time out, she hasn't developed the consistency at the top level yet quite as her greatest believers had hoped ( though still been into the top 30 ). But in principle, having the shots and ability to play them is so vital.

While I myself said that my real interest in juniors only gets spiked once they enter the top 50, that was more comment on generally taking limited note of the rankings for a variety of reasons, but at least if they reach top 50 they clearly have something at that stage. But absolutely agree, no guarantee going forward.

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Tennis legend

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Joel Cannell is back at no.1 and Jonathan Gray jumps up a few places


88 CANNELL, Joel +33 GBR 27 Nov 1997 34 302.50
98 CLARKE, Jay 0 GBR 27 Jul 1998 43 281.25
106 CANTER, Alexis -1 GBR 03 Jun 1998 34 272.50
130 MOORE, Ewan -2 GBR 09 Mar 1998 20 246.25
136 GRAY, JONATHAN +10 GBR 09 Apr 1997 43 240.00
171 STORRIE, Ryan James +1 GBR 28 Feb 1998 16 203.75
233 WALTERS, Marcus 0 GBR 03 Apr 1998 27 161.25
234 MACFARLANE, Jack 0 GBR 06 Dec 1997 32 161.25
282 BENNETT, Daniel -4 GBR 27 Feb 1998 23 141.25
288 BROOM, Charles -3 GBR 24 Apr 1998 27 140.00
296 BUTLER, Sebastien -5 GBR 06 May 1997 25 137.50
313 BASS, Finn -2 GBR 09 Oct 1999 28 128.75
315 STEWART, Max -2 GBR 05 Jan 1999 27 128.75
316 OAKLEY, Luke -2 GBR 29 May 1997 18 128.75
329 MOLLOY, Jack -1 GBR 22 Jul 1999 22 123.75
337 RECCI, Mason -5 GBR 23 Jan 1997 24 121.25
338 FOLEY, Piers -5 GBR 15 Jan 1998 22 121.25
365 HAMMOND, Luke -3 GBR 08 Dec 1998 20 112.50
398 SMITH, Barnaby -5 GBR 04 May 1999 19 103.75
433 PERRIN, Lawrence -6 GBR 09 Feb 1998 24 96.25
441 WRIGHT, Thomas -4 GBR 14 Nov 1998 18 93.75
458 DRAPER, Ben -7 GBR 19 Oct 1998 22 88.75
489 TAYLOR, LUCAS -5 GBR 06 Jan 1997 26 81.25

There is very little change on the girls side other than players dropping down the rankings - Anna Brogan, Mirabelle Njoze

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Tennis legend

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Not much change on the boys or girls side - Charles Broom is the only climber of note up to 253

On the girls Katie Swan has climbed one place to 12th. The major movers are the 2000 girls outside the top 500

Just on Katie Swan - just the Easter bowl points(APR) to defend until August of any note - so a good chance to climb higher up the rankings. I assume Katie will be allowed to play the Easter Bowl again.

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Tennis legend

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Big jumps for Jack and Ben

91 CANNELL, Joel +1 GBR 27 Nov 1997 34 302.50
104 CLARKE, Jay 0 GBR 27 Jul 1998 39 281.25
109 CANTER, Alexis +1 GBR 03 Jun 1998 34 272.50
131 MOORE, Ewan +2 GBR 09 Mar 1998 20 246.25
135 GRAY, JONATHAN +2 GBR 09 Apr 1997 43 240.00
176 STORRIE, Ryan James -4 GBR 28 Feb 1998 16 203.75
233 MACFARLANE, Jack -2 GBR 06 Dec 1997 30 165.00
238 WALTERS, Marcus -2 GBR 03 Apr 1998 26 161.25
256 BROOM, Charles -3 GBR 24 Apr 1998 29 155.00
284 MOLLOY, Jack +51 GBR 22 Jul 1999 24 143.75
288 BENNETT, Daniel -2 GBR 27 Feb 1998 23 141.25
302 BUTLER, Sebastien -5 GBR 06 May 1997 23 137.50
323 BASS, Finn -6 GBR 09 Oct 1999 26 128.75
325 STEWART, Max -6 GBR 05 Jan 1999 27 128.75
326 OAKLEY, Luke -6 GBR 29 May 1997 16 128.75
348 FOLEY, Piers -5 GBR 15 Jan 1998 24 121.25
356 DRAPER, Ben +101 GBR 19 Oct 1998 26 120.00
357 RECCI, Mason -15 GBR 23 Jan 1997 22 118.75
377 HAMMOND, Luke -4 GBR 08 Dec 1998 20 112.50
410 SMITH, Barnaby -6 GBR 04 May 1999 21 103.75
444 PERRIN, Lawrence -7 GBR 09 Feb 1998 22 96.25
452 WRIGHT, Thomas -6 GBR 14 Nov 1998 18 93.75

Nice jumps for Lauryn, Emily and Ali

12 SWAN, Katie 0 GBR 24 Mar 1999 31 780.00
46 LUMSDEN, Maia 0 GBR 10 Jan 1998 29 471.88
75 TAYLOR, Gabriella 0 GBR 07 Mar 1998 26 380.00
86 ARBUTHNOTT, Emily -1 GBR 03 Oct 1997 36 357.50
95 CHRISTIE, Freya -1 GBR 08 Nov 1997 23 340.00
130 MIKHEEVA, Anastasia +1 GBR 28 May 1999 28 257.50
159 ASGHAR, Jasmine Amber 0 GBR 08 Sep 1997 17 236.25
162 LAZIC, Ema 0 GBR 28 Dec 1998 30 235.00
166 BURRAGE, Jodie Anna -13 GBR 28 May 1999 31 227.50
192 AXON, Georgina +2 GBR 26 May 1999 31 206.25
197 RICHARDSON, Eden -12 GBR 03 Sep 1998 24 205.00
209 BROGAN, Anna 0 GBR 04 Aug 1997 22 198.75
245 HUTCHINSON, Holly +1 GBR 11 Sep 1997 26 175.00
283 LAWSON, Georgia -3 GBR 06 Oct 1998 35 157.50
330 APPLETON, Emily +17 GBR 01 Sep 1999 26 142.50
403 JOHN-BAPTISTE, Lauryn +48 GBR 26 Jul 1999 19 120.00
425 NJOZE, Mirabelle -8 GBR 05 Feb 1997 14 112.50
436 DAVIES, Megan -3 GBR 02 Mar 1999 18 110.00
460 COLLINS, Ali +171 GBR 27 May 2000 14 102.50


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Tennis legend

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No notable changes for the boys - Ewan climbed 5 places

Ema Lazic climbs 30 places to 132

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Tennis legend

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Maia is the only change of note climbing to 42.

She should really be playing the main tour by now, but she must be trying to defend points to make GS. She is playing Banana Bowl this week.

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Tennis legend

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No notable changes for the boys

For the girls - Katie Swan drops 1 place and Maia drops to 48

Ali Collins goes up to 322, Fran to 493 and Eliz to 726



-- Edited by paulisi on Monday 16th of March 2015 11:42:38 AM

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Tennis legend

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As predicted elsewhere, we have a new GB no.1(just)

96 CANTER, Alexis +16 GBR 03 Jun 1998 38 306.25
99 CANNELL, Joel -3 GBR 27 Nov 1997 36 305.00
113 CLARKE, Jay -7 GBR 27 Jul 1998 38 281.25
129 MOORE, Ewan -2 GBR 09 Mar 1998 22 251.25
141 GRAY, JONATHAN -2 GBR 09 Apr 1997 41 240.00
181 STORRIE, Ryan James -1 GBR 28 Feb 1998 16 203.75
226 MACFARLANE, Jack +15 GBR 06 Dec 1997 32 176.25
249 WALTERS, Marcus -1 GBR 03 Apr 1998 26 161.25
268 BROOM, Charles -2 GBR 24 Apr 1998 29 155.00
286 MOLLOY, Jack -2 GBR 22 Jul 1999 24 143.75
313 BUTLER, Sebastien -5 GBR 06 May 1997 21 137.50
335 BASS, Finn -3 GBR 09 Oct 1999 26 128.75
338 OAKLEY, Luke -3 GBR 29 May 1997 17 128.75
358 FOLEY, Piers -1 GBR 15 Jan 1998 24 121.25
367 DRAPER, Ben -3 GBR 19 Oct 1998 26 120.00
370 RECCI, Mason -4 GBR 23 Jan 1997 22 118.75
391 HAMMOND, Luke -2 GBR 08 Dec 1998 20 112.50
427 SMITH, Barnaby -4 GBR 04 May 1999 21 103.75
432 STEWART, Max -4 GBR 05 Jan 1999 21 102.50
443 BENNETT, Daniel -6 GBR 27 Feb 1998 17 98.75
450 PERRIN, Lawrence +3 GBR 09 Feb 1998 24 97.50

And Ali Collins is the big mover in the girls

14 SWAN, Katie -1 GBR 24 Mar 1999 27 765.00
42 LUMSDEN, Maia +6 GBR 10 Jan 1998 31 525.63
71 TAYLOR, Gabriella +7 GBR 07 Mar 1998 24 380.00
87 ARBUTHNOTT, Emily -1 GBR 03 Oct 1997 36 357.50
125 CHRISTIE, Freya -14 GBR 08 Nov 1997 17 276.25
142 LAZIC, Ema -4 GBR 28 Dec 1998 31 257.50
151 MIKHEEVA, Anastasia -1 GBR 28 May 1999 24 247.50
172 BURRAGE, Jodie Anna -4 GBR 28 May 1999 31 227.50
184 AXON, Georgina +10 GBR 26 May 1999 29 218.75
198 RICHARDSON, Eden +2 GBR 03 Sep 1998 24 205.00
208 ASGHAR, Jasmine Amber +3 GBR 08 Sep 1997 13 200.00
233 HUTCHINSON, Holly +15 GBR 11 Sep 1997 28 183.75
238 COLLINS, Ali +84 GBR 27 May 2000 18 182.50
288 LAWSON, Georgia -1 GBR 06 Oct 1998 35 157.50
329 APPLETON, Emily +8 GBR 01 Sep 1999 30 147.50
411 JOHN-BAPTISTE, Lauryn -2 GBR 26 Jul 1999 19 120.00
434 BROGAN, Anna -173 GBR 04 Aug 1997 18 113.75
442 NJOZE, Mirabelle -6 GBR 05 Feb 1997 14 112.50
454 DAVIES, Megan -3 GBR 02 Mar 1999 18 110.00
466 JONES, Francesca +27 GBR 19 Sep 2000 15 106.25


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Tennis legend

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In the boys, very little change - Finn Bass moving up a few places

However the big changes are for the girls

Katie climbs back up to 13
Georgina Axon to 153
Ali Collins up to 190
Fran Jones to 351
Eliz Maloney to 530

93 CANTER, Alexis +3 GBR 03 Jun 1998 36 306.25
99 CANNELL, Joel 0 GBR 27 Nov 1997 34 297.50
111 CLARKE, Jay +2 GBR 27 Jul 1998 40 281.25
129 MOORE, Ewan 0 GBR 09 Mar 1998 22 251.25
141 GRAY, JONATHAN 0 GBR 09 Apr 1997 41 240.00
179 STORRIE, Ryan James +2 GBR 28 Feb 1998 16 203.75
229 MACFARLANE, Jack -3 GBR 06 Dec 1997 34 176.25
254 WALTERS, Marcus -5 GBR 03 Apr 1998 26 161.25
273 BROOM, Charles -5 GBR 24 Apr 1998 29 155.00
293 MOLLOY, Jack -7 GBR 22 Jul 1999 24 143.75
316 BUTLER, Sebastien -3 GBR 06 May 1997 21 137.50
325 BASS, Finn +10 GBR 09 Oct 1999 25 133.75
345 OAKLEY, Luke -7 GBR 29 May 1997 17 128.75
354 FOLEY, Piers +4 GBR 15 Jan 1998 26 123.75
369 DRAPER, Ben -2 GBR 19 Oct 1998 26 120.00
375 RECCI, Mason -5 GBR 23 Jan 1997 22 118.75
397 HAMMOND, Luke -6 GBR 08 Dec 1998 20 112.50
433 SMITH, Barnaby -6 GBR 04 May 1999 21 103.75
436 STEWART, Max -4 GBR 05 Jan 1999 21 102.50
445 BENNETT, Daniel -2 GBR 27 Feb 1998 19 98.75

13 SWAN, Katie +1 GBR 24 Mar 1999 27 765.00
41 LUMSDEN, Maia +1 GBR 10 Jan 1998 31 525.63
69 TAYLOR, Gabriella +2 GBR 07 Mar 1998 22 380.00
83 ARBUTHNOTT, Emily +4 GBR 03 Oct 1997 34 357.50
123 CHRISTIE, Freya +2 GBR 08 Nov 1997 17 276.25
142 LAZIC, Ema 0 GBR 28 Dec 1998 31 257.50
150 MIKHEEVA, Anastasia +1 GBR 28 May 1999 24 247.50
153 AXON, Georgina +31 GBR 26 May 1999 31 243.75
175 BURRAGE, Jodie Anna -3 GBR 28 May 1999 31 227.50
190 COLLINS, Ali +48 GBR 27 May 2000 20 212.50
200 RICHARDSON, Eden -2 GBR 03 Sep 1998 24 205.00
207 ASGHAR, Jasmine Amber +1 GBR 08 Sep 1997 13 200.00
235 HUTCHINSON, Holly -2 GBR 11 Sep 1997 30 183.75
270 LAWSON, Georgia +18 GBR 06 Oct 1998 37 165.00
334 APPLETON, Emily -5 GBR 01 Sep 1999 30 147.50
351 JONES, Francesca +115 GBR 19 Sep 2000 16 140.00
419 JOHN-BAPTISTE, Lauryn -8 GBR 26 Jul 1999 19 120.00
446 NJOZE, Mirabelle -4 GBR 05 Feb 1997 12 112.50


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Grand Slam Champion

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Excellent to see Ali's strong move up the rankings recently, now at #12 in the "class of 2000 dobs" :)

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Masters Series Champion

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Have to say the next few junior years look more bright for the girls rather than the boys but swings and roundabouts

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Good luck Team GBR in 2016!!!

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