Battle for the top

Spectator · All-time great

Battle for the top

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

Djokovic has split with Becker, citing all their original goals have been achieved. Becker has said Djokovic's family have had to take a back seat. I think it can only mean his family are not going to take a back seat anymore with his 2017 schedule.

indiana · Tennis legend

Looking at year end points in the 8 years since the general points system we have in force now began, Andy's will be the 6th highest year-end points in that time and anyone with at least these points has always ended as year-end #1. There have been 11 instances of players ending with 10000 plus points, the 8 year end #1s and 3 #2s.

1. Djokovic 16585 - 2015 #1
2. Djokovic 13630 - 2011 #1
3. Nadal 13030 - 2013 #1
4. Djokovic 12920 - 2012 #1
5. Nadal 12450 - 2010 #1
6. Murray 12410 - 2016 #1
7. Djokovic 12260 - 2013 #2
8. Djokovic 11780 - 2016 #2
9. Djokovic 11360 - 2014 #1
10. Federer 10550 - 2009 #1
11. Federer 10265 - 2012 #2

TMH · Futures qualifying

Djokovic's 2015 was incredible. Must be up there as one of the greatest years for any one player in the history of the sport?

indiana · Tennis legend

I think everyone recognises that the first half of the year was Novak's and the second half Andy but the differences are so stark ...

Andy :
Up to & including French Open: 4450 points (Andy - 3500)
After French Open: 7960 points (Andy + 4130)
Total: 12410 (Andy +630)

Novak :
Up to & including French Open: 7950 points
After French Open: 3830
Total: 11780

Two great halves by each in turn ( although in total a bit short of Novak's phenomenal 2015 )

If Novak outdoes Andy by more than 4130 points in 2017 by the French Open to be # 1 then, I'll be very unpleasantly surprised.

-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 24th of December 2016 12:10:56 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

Novak successfully defends his Doha title points whilst Andy adds 150 to his total.

1. Murray 12560
2. Djokovic 11780

At the Aussie Open clearly again Novak can't increase his total. Andy needs to reach the SF to be sure of staying WR 1 if Novak stays in and goes on to retain the title ( if Andy had won today a QF would have been enough ). In any event Novak must retain the title to have any chance of returning to WR 1 immediately post the Aussie Open even if Andy doesn't win a match.

But I am pretty sure that Andy will not only win some matches but is looking for rather better than just QF or SF.

indiana · Tennis legend

And so it came to pass Andy's 780 points lead going into the Aussie Open will now be at least 1625 points coming out of it ( live 11450 to 9825 ). I'd rather you added a few to that mate, like a further 1910 !

His 12 weeks at #1 by Aussie Open end will roll past Becker's 12 weeks, Roddick's 13 and indeed Wilander's 20 since just no real scope to eat into already such a gap. Nastase's 40 weeks ( which if Andy was to reach in consecutive weeks would take us past Wimbledon ) is the first remotely potential hurdle ahead in the list. But really Andy has the opportunity to just build and build that gap prior to Wimbledon, particularly through Indian Wells and Miami, even if very good Novak form.

But again, winning Slams is VERY nice too, let's be greedy !

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

With Nole winning virtually everything in sight in the first half of 2016 the potential for Andy building a huge lead over the coming months is....well, huge :D
Lifting the AO title would indeed be a nice start! Fingers crossed :)

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

Born2WinTennis wrote:
Where do we think Andy can now get to on the list below? If he has say 4 more years battling it out at the top, with no youngsters that can dominate either him or djokovic, then I would like to think he could potentially reach Lleyton Hewitt 10th place on 80 weeks with Rafa's 7th place a target of 141 weeks as the absolute maximum, assuming a djokovic fightback and share of no.1 weeks.

Andy Murray UK 1
Patrick Rafter Australia 1
Carlos Moya Spain 2
Yevgeny Kafelnikov Russia 6
Thomas Muster Austria 6
Marcelo Rios Chile 6
Juan Carlos Ferrero Spain 8
John Newcombe Australia 8
Marat Safin Russia 9
Boris Becker Germany 12
Andy Roddick US 13
Mats Wilander Sweden 20
Ilie Nastase Romania 40
Gustavo Kuerten Brazil 43
Jim Courier US 58
Stefan Edberg Sweden 72
Lleyton Hewitt Australia 80
Andre Agassi US 101
Bjorn Borg Sweden 109
Rafael Nadal Spain 141
John McEnroe US 170
Novak Djokovic Serbia 223
Jimmy Connors US 268
Ivan Lendl US 270
Pete Sampras US 286
Roger Federer Switzerland 302

Andy increases his points lead as #1...albeit by not as much as hoped

-- Edited by vohor on Sunday 22nd of January 2017 05:35:38 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

After their Aussie Open disappointments, Andy now 11540 points, Novak 9825. Lead = 1715.

As said potential for huge lead if Andy gets his mojo back.

Taking points due off up to and including Miami :
Andy: 11540 - ( 45 + 45 ) = 11450
Novak : 9825 - ( 90 + 1000 + 1000 ) = 7735

So Andy could add 0 and Novak would still have to add 3715 by then to get on terms, so that's not happening.

The Monday following Miami will take Andy to 22 weeks at #1 and safe to say he will still be well in the lead then.

-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 23rd of February 2017 02:56:41 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

Andy's Dubai title and Novak's Acapulco QF exit move him 2215 points clear as WR 1 : 12040 points to 9825.

If Andy was not to win another ranking match before the Rome Masters and Novak retained his Indian Wells, Miami and Madrid titles and won Monte Carlo ( with nothing else sneaked in ) Andy would still be #1 at the start of Rome. I trust that won't be how it plays out !

Novak can make a maximum net gain from IW, Miami, Monte Carlo and Madrid of 2040 points ( 45 + 45 + 1350 + 600 - that's not even giving Andy showing up 10 points ). Being ranked #1 at the start of Rome would take Andy to 28 weeks at #1.

Of course, the odds are and we'd certainly hope that Andy will actually extend his lead over these 4 tournanents, particularly over Indian Wells and Miami.

As has been clear for a while he will go to #15 on the time at WR 1 list, ahead of Wilander. Bit of a jump to #14 Nastase on 40 weeks ( and #13 Kuerten on 43 weeks ). Basically to reach #14 with his current run Andy would have to hold position until a few weeks after Wimbledon, the conclusion of which would take him to 37 weeks.

vohor · Grand Slam Champion

Thanks for the update Indy; Andy looking good to be #1 for a while yet then :)

Drew · Mar 7, 2017

Cheers for that Indy.

indiana · Tennis legend

Drew wrote:
Cheers for that Indy.

No probs, stranger. Just sharing stuff I like looking at anyway.

Hope you well.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

It is a fascinating list, and in terms of greats of the modern era it doesn't really lie, skewed only by the fact that Borg binned tennis so early and definitely more dominant than pistol Pete and he had Mac to put in his place!

For me purely a subjective opinion based on: hero worship, 3 grand slams, a couple of gold medals and a DC; Andy is up there (obviously not statistically) well beyond the Agassi's of this world, alongside Rafa.

We have just been fortunate to have had 4 greats of the modern era playing simultaneously and to be fair to Wawrinka if he was born in a different decade he would be well up the board too!

Thank you for posting!

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Tuesday 7th of March 2017 10:04:44 PM